The Education System Is Making Kids Stupid

Discussion in 'Education & Learning' started by Martin Alonzo, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. Mary Stetler

    Mary Stetler Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 30, 2021
    Messages:
    6,439
    Likes Received:
    12,016
    I still like to go into a place where the total is $4.03 and I give a $20 bill and 3 cents and some don't know what to do about it.
     
    #391
  2. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2017
    Messages:
    971
    Likes Received:
    1,550
    Well, there's your problem. You are supposed to use your debit card. :)
     
    #392
    Mary Stetler and Ken Anderson like this.
  3. Mary Stetler

    Mary Stetler Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 30, 2021
    Messages:
    6,439
    Likes Received:
    12,016
    Kids plugged into their phones and computers will continue the downward slide. I insisted my kids learn flash cards when my middle daughter told me she wasn't supposed to use them but to user her calculator. My kids know a bit of food prep and wild foods. And how to start a fire. As well as how to use the web.
    It is very sad what could be coming.
     
    #393
  4. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,695
    Likes Received:
    43,547
    Parents need to take back control over their children's education. There are plenty of affordable and doable options to our failing public schools.
     
    #394
  5. Ed Marsh

    Ed Marsh Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 30, 2020
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    549
    Good morning to all-

    Mr. Anderson- I will agree that some good homeschooling programs are out there, And I will agree that IF a parent really works and spends the time and does the sweat work involved that home schooling can work.

    However, if the COVID lockdowns which closed many schools- and rightfully so- showed us nothing else, it did show parents who now had to supervise, plan, and deliver their kids' educational material just how hard teaching kids an educational program is. It seems there was a universal sigh of relief from many, many parents when public schools re-opened and the kids got back on the bus.

    Home schooling- and any other effective educational program- is much more than handing the kid a workbook and telling him/her to do the work and then the parent walking of to do whatever else needs to be done.

    The problem with any home schooling options is that unless the parent is willing and able to spend a lot of time and attention to the kid and what is being done, there won't be much learning going on. The problem with many home schooling situations in not the program and not the kid- it's the parents who won't/can't spend the time and attention needed.

    Can home schooling options really work? Yes, they can. Do they always work? Nope. Depends on the parents and the kids.

    The public schools are still the best option for a great majority of kids.

    You all be safe and keep well- Ed
     
    #395
    Nancy Hart and Hoot Crawford like this.
  6. Mary Stetler

    Mary Stetler Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 30, 2021
    Messages:
    6,439
    Likes Received:
    12,016
    Public schools are one of the the only options to families where both parents work. The energy and attention it takes makes most home schooling very difficult for them.
     
    #396
  7. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,695
    Likes Received:
    43,547
    That's because too many parents view schools as daycare centers.

    When I raised my son, as a single parent, I found that if I wanted him to succeed, I had to afterschool him. When his math teacher was unable or unwilling to help him actually learn the subject, I bought the teacher's edition of the book that they were using and taught him myself. This was necessary only because math has never been my strong subject, either. When I spoke to his teacher about it, his attitude was that "other students are getting it." He was not a stupid child; he just needed help to the point where it began to make sense to him. Similarly, I spent time with him on some of his other subjects. He would have done better if he didn't waste his time in school but, at that time, I bought into the myth that homeschooling was out of the question. Since I was in California then, that may have been true, at least in a legal sense.

    When we raised our nephew, we soon learned that the public school was doing more harm than good, so we pulled him out and homeschooled him, which isn't nearly as much work as they would have you believe. Far too many parents view homeschooling as them standing behind a desk lecturing for eight hours a day, Monday through Friday.
     
    #397
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024
    Bobby Cole likes this.
  8. Ed Marsh

    Ed Marsh Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 30, 2020
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    549
    Good afternoon to all-
    Mr. Anderson- I would never be so foolish as to suggest that public schools will work for every kid. No educational setting will work for every kid for a lot of reasons. And I commend you for doing the extra work at home that helped your son and nephew. If most kids have a good public school and good parents who support him/her, the kids will succeed.

    I have close relatives who homeschool their kids, and their kids appear to be doing quite well. After all, that's what matters- the kids learning and gaining information and skills that will serve them as their lives go on.

    I will continue to hold fast to the idea that for the great majority of kids, public school is a very viable option, and for most, the best option

    I grit my teeth when places- such as my home state of Alabama- have push from certain viewpoints of the political spectrum who want to be able to take public school funds and use them in private schooling situations. When the private schools and academies serve the same population of kids as public school and follow the same guidelines, then I'll listen and evaluate. But as long as the private schools and academies can pick and choose the kids they serve, then they deserve no public funding. Send your kids to whatever school setting you want, but don't take money out of the limited public school coffers.

    you all be safe and keep well- Ed
     
    #398
    Nancy Hart and Hoot Crawford like this.
  9. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,695
    Likes Received:
    43,547
    So what you are saying is that if private schools are held to the same poor standards, guidelines of indoctrination, and failed policies that have wrecked the public school system, then you might be in favor? Why attend a private school that isn't allowed to be any better than the public school alternative? Not all of them take advantage of it, but the strengths of private schools over public schools are that they are not held back by the sad policies of government bureaucracies, teacher's unions, and their agendas.
     
    #399
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024
  10. Ed Marsh

    Ed Marsh Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 30, 2020
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    549
    Good evening to all-
    Mr. Anderson- No, you misunderstand what I hold. When private schools and academies serve the same kids as public schools- white, black, poor, rich, Hispanic, oriental, academically gifted, academically challenged, financially well-off, financially broke, supportive parents, indifferent parents- you know, whatever climbs down off the bus- then we'll call it even and see who does the best.
    The simple fact that private schools and academies can exclude any kid for any reason while the public school cannot makes the whole question of best school situation not worth asking.. And please, don't even talk about "indoctrination" in the public school and give a pass to the private schools. Much, much more "indoctrination" is built into most private schools.

    I will confess that I do not agree with all rules and regulations placed on the public schools by higher levels of government. Public schools are held to a very much higher standard of accountability than private schools through all forms of government regulation. But truth be told, most painful government regulations which public school must abide by came about because local schools were not serving the needs of kids, and local school would not serve the needs of certain kids without government regulation.

    I really am sorry you and yours had a bad experience in the public schools. I'm sorry you see the public schools as so bad. I'm sorry you don't like teacher unions. But having spent my life serving in public schools, I believe that for every bad experience any and all kids have in public schools, the great majority gain a great deal from their time in the public schools. I spent my life trying to help kids in my classes, and I wish I could have had the chance to help your kids- I would have tried my best to help them succeed.

    you all be safe and keep well- Ed
     
    #400
    Ken Anderson and Nancy Hart like this.
  11. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,695
    Likes Received:
    43,547
    I am not necessarily in favor of government tuition for private schools because I am afraid that, as you suggest, this will come with mandates that will threaten the scholastic and academic viability of these private schools, but, I can understand why people might want that. Since we're all paying for education, why not empower parents to have a say in which schools their children attend? Tuitioning would allow parents who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford to do so to send their children to a better school, as well as putting the money where it belongs so that parents don't have to pay private school tuition plus support the public schools.

    It would also improve the quality of the public schools. As it is, public school systems have no incentive to do a good job. Their budgets are going to increase every year regardless of the job they do. With tuitioning, there would be an incentive to try harder.

    As for indoctrination, I will assume (perhaps incorrectly) that you are referring primarily to those with a religious affiliation. In that event, yes, I would agree that there is indoctrination, but it is indoctrination that is chosen by the parents of the children who attend a parochial school, rather than one that is imposed upon their children over the objections of the parents. Indoctrination should be a parental privilege.

    There are, however, plenty of secular private schools, and there would be more if there were a greater demand for them, which might come about after parents are able to choose between one school or another, and have their tax allocation follow them.
     
    #401
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2024
    Bobby Cole likes this.
  12. Ed Marsh

    Ed Marsh Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 30, 2020
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    549
    Good evening to all-
    Mr. Anderson- With all respect for your opinion that schools and teachers would "try harder" if public tax money were sent to private schools, let me assure you that public schools and public school teachers already try very hard to meet the needs of their students. Less money really won't make teachers try harder than they already are. It's not a matter of teacher and schools "trying harder."

    And as far as schools and teachers having no incentive to do a good job- we have the best incentive in the world- our students and helping them get ready for their lives to come.

    And as far as secular private schools go, my experience with them- from the outside and only through kids who attended such schools and came back by choice- they tended to be quite sub-standard.

    I'm sorry your experience with the public schools was not satisfactory. Again, I wish I could have worked with your kids.

    you all be safe and keep well- Ed
     
    #402
  13. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
    Staff Member Senior Staff Greeter Task Force Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    24,695
    Likes Received:
    43,547
    Nothing in reality suggests that.
     
    #403
  14. Ed Marsh

    Ed Marsh Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    May 30, 2020
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    549
    Good morning to all-

    Mr. Anderson-
    I think we have taken this particular discussion about as far as we can. I respect your views and your life experiences, and I hope you will return the respect.
    I am sorry you think teachers don't try hard enough to work with their kids- most teachers do a great deal to make school work well for their students.

    So, I hope we can agree to disagree in a positive, constructive manner.

    you all be safe and keep well- Ed
     
    #404
    Hoot Crawford likes this.
  15. Marie Mallery

    Marie Mallery Veteran Member
    Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2021
    Messages:
    10,926
    Likes Received:
    10,106
    Private or home school would be my choice now. I would be concerned about school violence from a lunatic shooting though, so guess I'd have to homeschool if I was able.
     
    #405
    Ken Anderson and Yvonne Smith like this.

Share This Page