The Education System Is Making Kids Stupid

Discussion in 'Education & Learning' started by Martin Alonzo, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    When I was a program chairman at a state college, probably about 70% or more of my students had to take remedial courses before they could enroll in the program courses.
     
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  2. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Veteran Member
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    lol - it's clear that you still don't get it and never will, I didn't offer any anecdotal experience or deny any data. My lovely bride in fact, as were all her fellow Honor Society members were all educated in public schools. Just giving folks an example of how easy it is to distort/torture data. Sorry that's beyond your grasp. The link you had provided earlier merely distorted the facts. It is true that THE students who are selected for home schooling often out perform THE students who are not selected. It isn't the home schooling that makes the difference, it is THE student.

    And, given that there are about 97,000 public schools in the US, and over 30,000 private schools, and yes the students at the private schools routinely outperform the public school students. Is the instruction better or do they start with a preselected group that is likely more gifted or has more involved parents, either on of which will create improved outcomes. Of those 97,000 public schools, some are great, some suck. Why would you expect them all to be the same. I posted earlier about Baltimore City schools. Yes they all suck, and I would not let my kids go there.

    And as usual, you are providing anecdotes (and the occasional youtube video) instead of data or facts, so nothing you say on this matter has any weight.

    So, have a nice day.
     
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  3. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Veteran Member
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    My suspicion is that you have the $$ correct but the wrong year. That's just a guess

    "an average of $64.40K in 1970 to $66.40K in 2020"
     
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  4. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    And you have brought very few facts to the table and since I AM the source for the facts concerning ILS, it would seem that you’re at a very large loss.

    Also, the link I provided was not a YouTube item nor was it anecdotal or…..in your haste to make some highly biased point, did you somehow miss it perhaps.

    Never mind Hoot. Again, you have your opinions on the whole matter and you’re not going to do any studies or bring good referencing to the table so why should anyone else?

    Alas, for my part, I do believe I’ll end this seemingly never ending conversation that is going absolutely nowhere to rest. I’ll stick to the facts I have found and experienced and you can stick with uh….yours.

    G’nite all and goodbye Hoot.
     
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  5. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Veteran Member
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    Thank goodness!
     
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  6. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    I'll concede that it's probably wrong. I quoted it correctly because I rechecked it when you first questioned the number, but now it's no longer in my recent history, and I can't find it anymore. Teachers are still vastly overpaid, however.
     
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  7. Ed Marsh

    Ed Marsh Very Well-Known Member
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    Good morning to all-
    Mr, Anderson-
    You've said some things in the past which were interesting, and you've said some things in the past which were debatable. But "Teachers are still vastly overpaid" has to be the most wrong-minded and distracted statement you've made- that I have read.
    I am sorry you hate public school and public school teachers so much. I wish you could have been able to try public school teaching yourself. You are a bright man, and you could probably have done well at it. And I expect you would have learned a great deal.

    And if teachers are overpaid, what can you say about every other vocation? We're all overpaid?

    you all be safe and keep well- Ed
     
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  8. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Veteran Member
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    So, if anyone is interested, here are some real numbers about public school teachers:
    1970 Average pay >>> $8,696 (nowhere near the $64,400 quoted earlier)
    2019 Average pay >>>$62,271
    2020 Average pay >>>$64,172
    2022 Average pay >>>$66,397 (which is what was quoted for 2020)

    Source:
    https://usafacts.org/data/topics/pe...ucation/public-school-teacher-salary-average/

    I would also point out that about half (49.2%) of public school teachers have a Masters degree, and another 8.8% have post-Masters education. Maybe a second masters, maybe a PhD. The averages above include those folks.

    Source:
    https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ntps/tables/ntps1718_fltable04_t1s.asp

    Overpaid? Since there are about 3.2 million teachers in American public schools, I'm sure you can find a couple that are overpaid and underpaid.

    Understand I don't have a dog in this fight. I know that Ken did homeschool several family members, and it is only natural that he seeks to validate that decision and effort. The sad part is that his comment about teachers being "vastly overpaid" does not reflect poorly on the teachers, but on him.

    I think my work here is done.

    Have a nice day
     
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  9. Denise Evans

    Denise Evans Supreme Member
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    This is the best speech I've heard from a parent at some meeting, maybe PTA, not sure:

     
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  10. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Supreme Member
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    Ken, I have the deepest respect for you and your opinions. But I have to respectfully disagree with that statement. Teachers should be paid 10 times more than they are. Just for having the courage to face another day in the classroom.
     
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  11. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Given the poor state of the product they produce, I disagree. While the greater problem is in the agenda they work under, as a rule, teachers support that agenda through their teacher's unions, so they need to own it.
     
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  12. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Supreme Member
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    I understand that to get a job as a teacher, you almost have to join the union. .........

    I just walked into the kitchen where my son has the TV on to watch the news. They were talking about some kind of trouble in a Raleigh school. They were interviewing a lady about it. I heard her say, "Where are the parents????" And that, my dear, is the problem in a nutshell.
     
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  13. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    That and the fact that if a bad or ineffective teacher is tenured, the cost and time it takes to release the teacher isn’t worth it to most schools so they allow them to keep their job.
     
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  14. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    "Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by education." -- Bertrand Russell
     
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  15. Ed Marsh

    Ed Marsh Very Well-Known Member
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    Good morning to all-
    With all due respect to Mr, Russell- Men ARE born ignorant and some ARE born stupid -depending on how you define that term. Some are made wise by their education, and some do not profit by their education, for many reasons.
    But education never made anyone stupid.

    you all be safe and keep well- Ed
     
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