The United Methodist Church Has Started To Formally Spinter

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by John Brunner, Jul 6, 2022.

  1. Marie Mallery

    Marie Mallery Veteran Member
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    The first massacre in America was done to the Huguenots in N.E. Florida by religious fanatics, Now I just pray to God and ask for His direction in Jesus's name.
    To my sorrow I studied much religion while seeking the 'truth'. I never found it in any organized religion. But the one who stuck out the most with paganism, idolatry and control was the Catholic.
    This is not to blame the people who don't understand what they are being taught and many are too poor to study and research what they are worshipping because of poverty.
    The preacher of one of the worst in some ways is the one who has a great lesson of the subject, he should spend some of his time researching his own religion, Imo.
    After much study I left Christianity for Judaism for a short while but found that lacking too.
    Religion is a very hard to understand and frustrating to the point of sadness.

    True that the Inquisition and The Crusaders were a vile and evil bunch also, but they don't control nations and billions of people.
     
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  2. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    It became a problem when fathers became less involved in the Scouting movement and left it to "volunteers". As fathers became less important in American life, men stepped away from their roles as leaders. I was fortunate that my sons were involved in a scout troop where the dads were very involved and the scoutmaster was a prince of a man who still carries on the role even though all his sons have grown, although he has left Scouting and moved to Trail Life, a church-based movement that can set its own standards. Volunteers are a big part of the problem with Scouting, as they are in some church camps and other activities. Even though there are background checks done, in todays society, many activities are overlooked so as not to appear "prejudiced" against people's choices. The scoutmaster I referred to left Scouting when they allowed openly-gay scouts. He had always used the older, more experienced scouts to buddy with younger scouts as mentors, but felt he could no longer do that as no matter what he would do, there would be bad consequences. Pedophiles always move to environments where their proclivities can be pursued and that leads them to schools, scouts, and some church-based youth groups. Schools are the biggest targets, as that is where the most children are and there are many neglected children these days who need a "friend" and need to feel "loved". Sad....
     
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  3. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
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    My 70 year old neighbor stepped down from his scoutmaster duties a couple of years ago. I imagine he got involved for his son, who is now in his 40s. If he did not need knee replacement surgery, he'd still be doing it, but the guy can barely hobble. The troop now has a female Scoutmaster (or would that be Scoutmistress?) Harry continues to consult on escorting boys through the Eagle Scout process, but the boys no longer have a male role model...even in scouts.
     
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  4. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    Exactly my point. Men have stepped back from their roles.
     
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  5. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    Could it be that the threat of being labeled as one of those who possesses some fraction of “toxic masculinity” might be holding some men back?
    Or…..possibly it’s just an excuse for the would be men to sit on their butts and allow the ladies to take the responsibility.

    Lord knows, I wouldn’t want to be too much of a man.
     
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  6. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    It's just a different world; people no longer want the traditional roles because of all the obstacles of the woke society and the newly imposed crap rules. (Teachers, scout leaders, etc.)

    My ex-husband was an Eagle Scout and also a Sea Scout, since his troop owned a sailboat in coastal Texas. His father was a scout master and also an Eagle Scout, but I doubt he'd be as involved today. Neither of our sons had any interest in scouting.
     
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  7. Marie Mallery

    Marie Mallery Veteran Member
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    Don schoolteachers are not under some kind of un-natural vow that can lead to these acts. Celibacy is un-natural, no matter how devout the man starts out.
     
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  8. Marie Mallery

    Marie Mallery Veteran Member
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    Homosexuals didn't always have the power they have now, so very few were scout leaders, because the fathers who were involved would have watched for such perverts. Homosexuality is perversion of the natural desires of men and women.
    You think we have a problem with teachers now, just be glad that teachers aren't required to be celibate.
     
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  9. Marie Mallery

    Marie Mallery Veteran Member
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    But the Crusaders or inquisitionist aren't filling up your nation with their people nor are the Protestants, but now they can al relax because we have the open border gang in office so Rome will get all the finance they will ever need. Cartels has just switched hands is all.
     
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  10. Marie Mallery

    Marie Mallery Veteran Member
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    This is just another example that discussing on religion and politics are good examples of a bad idea. There is seldom a civil debate on either one.
     
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  11. Marie Mallery

    Marie Mallery Veteran Member
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    I was wrong to condemn anyone's church no matter what my personal feelings are, so I apologize for doing so.
     
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  12. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    My point was that the Crusaders were Catholics who went to war to drive out Muslims.
     
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  13. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    So Jesus was an unnatural person and he was capable of such acts? He, too, was said to be celibate.
     
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  14. Marie Mallery

    Marie Mallery Veteran Member
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    Don all I did was inflame people on this subject so I'm keeping quite on this one.
     
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  15. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
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    The members of the 3 churches in the charge I was attending are meeting today to discuss disaffiliation. I am surprised they are seriously considering this, and I am really surprised that the pastor is in agreement. The last I heard, the members of the larger church were in full-blown rationalization mode: "We already had a gay pastor, and he would out well," "I have relatives who are gay, you all are bigoted," etc etc etc. I helped the leader of that church with a fundraising event last Sunday (we rode there together) and I briefly touched on the subject. She did not seem as dead set on staying with the UMC as I had assumed. One interesting point a friend raised is that the pastors bear the brunt of a lot of edicts issued from UMC management, so disaffiliation would put an end to that, to whatever extent it may bother them.

    The deal is that the churches can buy their property for the sum of 2 year's apportionments, plus they each write a check for $3,000 to cover the costs of the UMC's legal fees :rolleyes:. Churches that have had full time pastors must write a check to fund the retirement accounts of those pastors. The shared pastor of this charge is part time, so that is not a factor here. For the smallest of the 3 churches, the cost to leave is $2,000 plus $3,000 UMC legal fees. I don't know how much the others might be out-of-pocket.

    I heard that a larger UMC church in the area has already gone through the process, and it has always had full time pastors. The disaffiliation cost them 6 figures because of the retirement fund issue, and because they have always had a large congregation so their annual apportionment had been sizeable. Because they have that level of commitment, I was considering attending services there, but I don't know much about what the new Global Methodist organization (GMC) believes.

    The nasty underbelly of this is the disappointing behaviour of the UMC at the highest levels. There has been a lot of name-calling directed towards those who wish to leave (some say it's been bilateral.) I already commented that this issue was coming to a head at the 2019 conference, and they kicked the can down the road. COVID caused the General Conference to be cancelled in 2020 and 2021. Then the UMC decided to cancel the 2022 AND 2023 General Conferences, and to schedule the next one for 2024. I now find that a possible reason for the deferrals is that The Book of Discipline's provision for churches to leave and to buy their properties as I described above expires at the end of 2023...hence the deferral of conferences until 2024. I've read that the District leadership for Atlanta (Ground Zero for a large chunk of UMC church disaffiliation) is dragging their heels in processing disaffiliation requests. After 2023 comes and goes, those churches would then have to pay fair market value for the properties.
     
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