When Will America Get Better, Or Can It?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Cody Fousnaugh, Jun 28, 2022.

  1. Ralf Mannheim

    Ralf Mannheim Well-Known Member
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    Just look at data like these, and you'll see that the states has been in trouble for decades:

    https://www.usdebtclock.org/

    The total debt is now more than $90 trillion, and unfunded liabilities more than $170 trillion. That's mathematically impossible to pay and has been rising since the early 1980s.

    People are too caught up with their ideologies they keep thinking back-and-forth that the country did better when their favorite politicians were in power and then went under when the ones they hate took over. That's why every few years groups of vloggers from one side or another talk about a "coming catastrophe."

    The truth is that growth was slowing down, trade deficits were rising, and debt was going up across multiple administrations. In short, it's been a drawn-out catastrophe spanning decades, and the only way that the country has been mitigating that is by taking on more debt. But that's based on the use of the dollar as a reserve currency, which more countries want to avoid but can't because of the Triffin dilemma.
     
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  2. Mary Stetler

    Mary Stetler Veteran Member
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    Then you have gov't numbers of pieces of paper printed at will.
    How about looking up US Debt Clock.
     
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  3. Nancy Hart

    Nancy Hart Veteran Member
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    Do you credit any of this debt to Trickle Down Economics? It started big time in the 1980s. It's still being promoted, as late as 2019. Maybe it will work THIS time.

    People also expect things to happen immediately upon a change of policy. So the pendulum swings back and forth too quickly to find out. Except it's almost impossible to raise taxes once they are lowered. lol
     
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  4. Mary Stetler

    Mary Stetler Veteran Member
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    The point is that you asked where you could go for economic truth. We no longer have the 'money supply' published. We can be told anything because our currency has been manipulated (inflated/deflated) to nothing. With no hard backing the currency is worth the 'confidence of the people'. It happened to many countries; Germany, Mexico, Zimbabwe... We just can't believe our country would do it to us. We sent our sons to war, we paid our taxes...
    Kissinger/Nixon made deals with China. Companies slowly moved to where costs of labor and taxes were lowest and consumers gobbled up the good deals and chotchkes. Interest rates on savings went to zero with the interest rates being lowered over all to try to hold down the debt the US owed to everyone. China bought gold. Several other countries did also to give value/backing to their currencies.
    US is planning an unbacked digital currency and has several laws in place to allow the gov't to take everything from its citizens to move us on. The Federal Reserve, a private consortium of banks, planned the dollar to wind down over 100 years. We are there.
    Vloggers over 100 years? They were the conspiracy nuts, of course.
    Taxes have nothing to do with taking down the debt if the Fed can have all the money printed that they want. The IRS knows exactly what we owe before we do. Taxes are only about control of the tax owers/payers.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
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  5. Ralf Mannheim

    Ralf Mannheim Well-Known Member
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    By "government numbers", I'm talking about data sets like GDP growth rate, balance of trade, and debt levels. The ones from US Debt Clock also use government numbers.

    Are you referring to another set of data? Maybe Shadow Stats?

    Also, money isn't mostly printed but comes in the form of numbers stored in computers. And they're not created at will. Rather, they are created when someone borrows, and for the states, someone's almost everyone.

    Yes, which is why the debt grew readily:

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/164163-krugman-and-the-pied-pipers-of-debt

    [​IMG]

    But I'm told that I shouldn't trust any data coming from the government.
     
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  6. Ralf Mannheim

    Ralf Mannheim Well-Known Member
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    That reminds of Steve Keen's explanation of the myth of the money multiplier:



    Here's a summary of what I think has been going on:

    People form a bank with declared capital of $100 million. The authorities create $100 million in computers. They also state that banks need a reserve ratio of 10 pct, meaning they can lend up to $90 million. The money supply is $100 million.

    Say, one business goes to the bank and just happens to borrow $90 million. Here's where the magic comes in: the bank doesn't lend $90 million from the $100 million it has. Instead, it reports the loan to the authorities, which creates $90 million. which the bank then lends to the business. The total money supply is now $100 million + $90 million.

    Because banks operate in a closed system, then whatever is deposited in any bank is counted as part of the total money supply. Ultimately, that business or other businesses which use that $90 million will deposit it in the same and other banks, and the latter can lend up to 90 pct of $90 million, or $72 million. But just like what happened earler, the bank doesn't lend $72 million out of the $90 million but creates a new $72 million. So the total money supply is now $100 million + $90 million + $72 million.

    Keep doing this, and from $100 million, one will get a total money supply of $1 billion. That's the money multiplier, which is part of fractional reserve banking, and generally part of leveraging.

    Here's the punch line: even with that leveraging, the reserve ratio is supposed to limit the multiplier to only 10 times, right (from $100 million to $1 billion)? According to Keen, in 2007, reserves were at $20 billion, which means with the multiplier money borrowed from them should be no more than $200 billion, or ten times more. Instead, the total money supply grew to $7,200 billion:

    https://twitter.com/kofinas/status/1180525063696736256

    So, why did this happen? Apparently, not only are banks able to borrow from other banks, they also don't follow the reserve ratio, which means they're not only able to lend beyond 90 pct of their reserves but even create money beyond it. Hence, the money multipler is a myth not because it doesn't exist but because the resulting money supply goes way beyond it.

    Here's where things get even better: money is part of credit, which has an even bigger market. That means there are many financial instruments now that are used to create even more money, and the biggest is the derivatives market, much of which is not regulated. The estimated notional value of the market globally is $1 quadrillion, or many times bigger than the world economy itself.

    What's the point, then?

    The main source of money creation isn't government but commercial banks and other financial institutions. The money is created when there are borrowers, and given financial speculation, there are lots of borrowers who use them to make a killing in the markets.

    That's why it's financial institutions that mostly control even the world economy:

    https://www.newscientist.com/articl...d-the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world/

    Finally, some bonuses, but I think they deserve separate threads:

    1. The same institutions, dominated by the richest people in the world, finance not just governments but also businesses. In short, they control societies politically as well using financial power.

    2. Part of that control involves destabilizing, coercing, and attacking other countries for strategic advantages. It's part of neoconservatism, the belief that the U.S. should protect the world against those who oppose freedom and democracy, but should do so through military force. The ones who fund that military and earn from control of other countries are the same rich, i.e., the military industrial complex.

    3. Another part of that control is neoliberalism, or the belief that other economies should be pried open in the name of freedom. With their industries still in infancy, they are overwhelmed by businesses also owned by the same rich. They also try to turn other societies into the image of the U.S., with consumer spending driven by borrowing and pecuniary emulation.

    The two political parties work for and with the rich, and together they make up the "swamp." That swamp can't be drained because the rich are very powerful and everyone relies on them for funding: the government, the military, businesses, and the rich.
     
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  7. Mary Stetler

    Mary Stetler Veteran Member
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    Great explanation. Digital money from derivatives or paper money printed at will of the powerful--the same...
    The can has been kicked down the road about as far as it can go because the international borrowers know there is nothing behind it. China has bought farmland in the US and will probably start demanding collateral like National Parks. When the US citizens can no longer buy food and gas, 'funding' won't help anymore. The powerful will have whatever they want.
    The Federal Reserve has no longer control over a dollar worth zero.
     
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  8. Ralf Mannheim

    Ralf Mannheim Well-Known Member
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    Only around 3 pct of money consists of cash and coins. The other 97 pct consists of numbers in hard drives. That's because it's impractical to pay using cash for large amounts.

    The Federal Reserve is actually a private consortium of Wall Street and some international banks. The President appoints its members but the latter are chosen by their peers, and they're all bankers or work with them. The Fed also acts independently of the government.

    In a way, the Fed is the bank that Wall Street set up for Washington.

    Besides that are the large Wall Street banks and various financial institutions, with some of the latter operating as asset managers. The toal amounts managed vary, but the top ones include BlackRock ($10 trillion), followed by companies like Vanguard, State Street, and others. With total assets of around $30 trillion for the U.S., just one company controls around a third of them.

    Some more bonuses:

    Something like 10 pct of the U.S. population controls 70 pct of wealth. Worldwide, the 200 richest people in the world have more wealth than half of the world's population.

    If the same 200 hundred people were to give up 10 pct of their wealth, that amount would be enough to provide enough education and almost wipe out poverty worldwide.

    How small is that 10 pct? The wealth of that 200 goes up by 10 pct every two years or so, and personally, they probably use only around .5 pct of their wealth for personal needs. In short, they won't even feel it, and they'll get it back easily without doing anything.
     
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  9. Mary Stetler

    Mary Stetler Veteran Member
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    You could take everything they own and not pay off what we owe.
    Good news! Zimbabwe is issuing gold coins to try to fix their inflation. Too late, but good try.
     
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  10. Ralf Mannheim

    Ralf Mannheim Well-Known Member
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    That'd would be similar to what they did in Russia through a Commie Revolution.

    About gold and silver, what's interesting about those is that from the perspective of a survivalist and a prepper, they actually have very little practical value. For gold, except for dental fillings, certain chemical processes, and parts of sophisticated equipment that shouldn't corrode (like contact points), their main use involves jewelry and money, and the latter mainly because they're rare, malleable, and durable.

    Reminds me of stories during WW2 where people in countries that were invaded ended up trading a gold-plated watch for a sack of rice due to scarcity. The former loses its value when things hit the fan but is very durable while the latter is critical (because you can't eat gold) but doesn't last.
     
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  11. Mary Stetler

    Mary Stetler Veteran Member
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    Yes and there are stories where people had to use a wheel barrow to haul enough money to buy a loaf of bread.
    Better get yourself a few sacks of rice then, because currency printed digitally with no backing will not be worth much more than paper with no backing.
     
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  12. Ralf Mannheim

    Ralf Mannheim Well-Known Member
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    And given what happened during WW2, gold won't be worth much, either, as things hit the fan.

    The catch with sacks of rice is that they also don't last long except if you vacuum seal them in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers, and then seal the bags in food-grade buckets. Of course, if you have to bug out, you can't bring them because they're too heavy.
     
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  13. Mary Stetler

    Mary Stetler Veteran Member
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    I am ok. How will you be?
    Back in January 2022(?) everything around here shut down. People were seeing empty shelves and worrying about possibilities. And it was not even that bad except for the toilet paper disappearing, really, because of people reacting to headlines.
    My family was fine. Snug as a bug in a rug. We found out what our weaknesses were. (there were 2) What we could do about them and did.
    People are finding out that the government can't fix everything, Like after Katrina. We did not see the true aftermath. You can lose (and are losing everything). Inflation. Digital money without backing can be hacked or whatever. Governments can actually end up with everything to supposedly dole out to those in need. History shows how that turns out.
    China is preparing, Iran, Russia...not for the little guy but the haves, mostly.
    When you think about it, the only thing that is safe is knowledge. Maybe you should get some phosphydital serine (sp?)
     
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  14. Ralf Mannheim

    Ralf Mannheim Well-Known Member
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    To recap earlier points, it's the rich that controls the U.S., not the government. That's why top officials are either rich or work with them. And the bulk of the wealth of the rich comes in the form of money.

    Money is essentially debt and has value only as a medium of exchange. That also applies to things like gold and silver which have little practical value (and with value measured in dollars), as well as non-digital money.

    Hacking is not needed, just fractional reserve banking, and beyond that the ability to create credit. That's why the dominant groups worldwide aren't government and even central banks but private financial corporations.

    Finally, the value of all that is backed by industrialization, which involves, among others, only 7 to 10 days' worth of food, medicine, fuel, and other provisions in every town and city in the states and abroad, as businesses want to maximize profits by keeping things moving.
     
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  15. Mary Stetler

    Mary Stetler Veteran Member
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    We have but to wait.
    I believe the digital currencies that will make it are those backed by the traditional gold and silver. China, Russia, Iran and others have been preparing, not for the World Economic Forum's reset which has plenty of 'wealth' behind it. But for finances with accountablility. They will stop dealing with the US, Canada, Western Europe. Fiat currency always falis.
    CAFR might back some of our debt but someone might notice.
     
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