Great post Yvonne - I never understood most of what was taught to me, so much didn't make sense So I just gave it a lot of thought over the years and a conclusion was reached, I'm happy with it
I suppose I'm just obstinate enough that I refuse to be "scared" into believing. That doesn't cut it for me in the scheme of things.
Oh yea, you're obstinate alright I refused to be scared into anything (haven't changed) I was extremely psychic growing up which led me on my 'thinking process'
Haha. That post wasn't addressed to you (or anyone in particular), Patsy. Just a random "what I think" post. You know how I am.
Nancy, your theory leads me to think of being anesthetized. Often wondered the same thing myself. I don't remember anything while under anesthesia at all. Our soul is thought by some to be our brain while others theorize it is our heart. What I believe it is the kinetic energy that makes us all tick in the first place and you can neither create it nor kill it.
Another thing about God, why wouldn't he appear in the sky and prove his existence? All wars would immediately end, people would behave better, crime would likely go down, charity would increase, etc. I know , it's about faith, it's a test, but why? Just makes no sense to me. It just sounds like more mind control." Why? Because we say so. that's why. You must have faith".
For God to appear in the sky to prove that a supernatural being exists would most likely resolve the horrible issues we see taking place globally. But since science pegs the earth to be about 13 & 1/2 billion years old & the creation of earth is attributed to that supernatural being don't you think after 13 1/2 billion years that being could be to tired to make a personal appearance? Or at a minimum need some rest after translating and judging the various ethnic groups deeds of the 153,424 people that die each day. My best guess is after killing all but Noah & his family to improve his failed original experiment at making an image just like the us that are supposed to be up there somewhere. That being tried and failed again by supposedly letting his son die for the sins of mankind. Those two attempts by any measure would be determined to be a colossal failure. I can't imagine with two epic failures what a third attempt would produce. But if that belief in some supernatural being gets people thru their day and they are happy, more power to them. But back to heaven & hell. IMO Neither exists
Sheldon, you and others have disregarded my previous points in order to support your unfounded statements. I'll agree that the Bible's references to God's judgement does not substantiate its reality or not. But, the Old Testament Prophets wrote of fearing God and his day of judgement at least 1500 years before the Christian churches began to exist. It follows then, that the churches have not devised this concept in order to maintain membership or control. Is it one of many truths imbedded in the Bible that churches today teach? Yes, but not very often because it's not a popular subject to cover. It tends to turn people away from the pulpit rather than to it. I do not expect to sway anyone towards Christianity as the one true religion quickly or easily. But, it is important for one to at least assess the evidence fairly and seek truths in the matter. I'd suggest that you reread my post more carefully and see that there are other relevant points to consider when determining your belief or not in heaven and hell. At least form your conclusions upon the available evidence, not misguided perceptions. Tommy, you are not the first skeptic to call upon God to reveal himself. May I counter that God has done so in many ways, to many people, over many generations, yet people have still chosen to deny him. Case in point, consider the occasional miracles that have been documented even today. No matter how strong the evidence, Atheists and other types of materialists will dismiss the possibility of any supernatural event. The truth is that God has revealed himself not only through miracles, but through his creation and inspired word. We have plenty of evidence of his special creation through our discoveries in science, particularly in the past 50 years. And we have plenty of evidence of his divine involvement with the Bible, due to the fulfilled prophesies, scientific insights, and unprecedented manuscript authority prompted by critics over the past 2-300 years. You see, we don't need to accept Christianity upon blind faith, nor do we need to witness another miracle or discover new evidence. We simply need to assess the existing evidence with an open heart and mind. But that's where our free will comes into play, which God has carefully preserved in order to allow the possibility of genuine love. If one wants to seek God and truth, there's an abundance of evidence to support such a faith. But if one wants to be the ruler of his own life and reject submission to any supernatural authority, the world's full of excuses to disregard the evidence. In my view though, in light of the abundant evidence we have today, it takes a lot more faith to be an Atheist than to be a Christian.
There's no doubt in my "soul" or my "mind" that there is a heaven and a hell and that when we die we are going to one place or the other. No one scared me into believing this I just opened my heart to God and He came right in and showed me His love and truth. I once was lost but now I'm found and I am never going to be lost again. It's as simple as that for me.
Can't really fault faith in something. But what can be faulted is the one way thinking that is attributed to God. Pointing to miracles as proof is a prime example of one way thinking. Easy to search the internet for examples. https://www.beliefnet.com/inspiration/7-modern-miracles-that-science-cant-explain.aspx God is given credit for miracles yet when it comes to death & disasters. God isn't responsible? Looked up a referance to miracles, seems only right to look up what isn't attributed to God. Global number of natural disasters events 2000-2018 Published by T. Wang, Aug 9, 2019 In 2018, there were a total of 394 natural disasters events worldwide. Asia experienced the highest number of natural disasters, most likely due to its size and susceptibility. Deaths and costs of natural disasters Natural disasters affect almost every part of the world. In 2018, Indonesia faced the highest number of deaths in the world due to the earthquakes and tsunami that occurred there in September. In the United States that year, most of fatalities from natural disasters came from tropical cyclones, wildfires, heat, and drought. I cut that to only reflect 2018. Notice that is about natural disasters not the multitude of horrendous events caused by mankind against mankind. Or when thinking about the children born with birth defects miracle doesn't come to mind. I doubt when parents hear voices telling them to kill their children that same voice that is considered a miracle isn't from the same miracle source. I really appreciate this forum. If it wasn't for giving me the opportunity to express my opinion on religion I know I wouldn't think about religion.
According to the Bible satan is the one killing, stealing, and destroying ...so he gets credit for those things so many people want to blame God for. It is easy to see that both good and evil exist in this world. So why is it so hard to believe that God and satan exist too.
Wrong. While the Faith & Religion section of the forum is open for varying opinions, that does not mean that every thread is open to disruption. If you choose to worship evolution or the cookie monster, that's fine, and you are free to start a thread about why you believe whatever it is that you believe or don't believe in, but you are not free to interrupt or derail threads started by those of another faith. You may participate, but you are not free to disrupt the topic. Quoting the thread that is stickied in this section of the forum, outlining the guidelines for this area of the forum. This is the opening post of this thread. Combined with the title of this thread, When You See Heaven, I don't see an invitation to debate your god over anyone else's. Clearly, this thread is supposed to be about what we might expect of heaven. This could be an interesting discussion among people who believe that there may be a heaven, given that the Christian Scriptures don't describe it all that clearly. Instead, as you have done in other threads on Christian topics, you appear to feel threatened by anyone who worships a different god than your own and to feel compelled to disrupt any such topics. It is off-topic and unacceptable. While it would have been acceptable, albeit perhaps pointless, for you to point out that you do not expect to see heaven (I am sure there are others here who would agree that you are unlikely to see heaven), you seem determined to derail the thread, and that's just wrong. That is not debatable, and you need to stop. You are free to participate in the Faith & Religion section, however. Atheism is every bit as much of a religion as any other, requiring as much faith as any other, so you are as free to discuss your faith as anyone else, but not to disrupt those who believe in something other than what you believe in. As to the topic of heaven, that is an interesting one. Given that eternal life in heaven is clearly a significant goal of most Christians, and other religions as well, it's interesting that we know so little about it. My guess is that heaven is one of those things, like the nature of God, that we are incapable of fully understanding or appreciating. It's too bad that what we were given, instead, were pictures of angels on a cloud playing the harp, because that has always seemed kind of boring to me. Even the idea of mansions of gold is of limited appeal unless I could sell them for something I really wanted. Besides, if everyone had a mansion of gold, then we'd have to consider who had the bigger mansion. I don't really think that heaven is about any of that stuff. In the English translations, it seems that "heaven" is used to refer to pretty much everything above the earth, or the entire universe of God. But "heaven" is also the place where God dwells, and I think that being in the presence of God is worth more than all of the gold mansions in heaven. Again, I believe that the truth of heaven will be something that we can't even come close to imagining. Writings from Judaism suggest that the heavens are divided into seven strata. I don't see a lot of support for that in the Bible but Paul does refer to a "third heaven" in one of his letters to the Corinthians. Several Old Testament passages refer to a "heaven of heavens" (sometimes translated as "the highest heaven") and this also suggests that heaven is not just one place. Given that heaven is likely to be something beyond our understanding, I believe that the references we have to heaven are figurative, not because there is no such thing, but because it is impossible to express heavenly things in any other way. By figurative, I don't mean that there is no such place or that there is nothing literal about heaven, or even that it is simply a state or condition, as Jesus said that he was going to prepare a place for us there. We are told more about what we will not find in heaven than about what we will find. Luke says there will be no marrying or giving in marriage. Revelation tells us that there will be no tears, death, sorrow, crying, or pain and that there will be nothing that defiles, no curses, no night, nor will there be a need for light. We are told that some will be given crowns in heaven, which implies that not everyone will be equal in heaven. Yet, combined with other things that we are told of heaven, I don't get the sense that we will be striving for more or jealous of those who have a crown, or a larger gold mansion. I don't know what to expect but I trust that it will be better than either hell or the nothingness that many believe in.