I was speaking as if from Hugh's POV, not my own. Of course, atheists can be moral people. They can also be a little dense.
Sheldon Scott, the more I think of your post the angrier it makes me. It was completely obvious from context what I was saying. Your interpretation was that I was saying atheists cannot be moral people.This was, to use a technical term, stupid. Don't try to engage me any more on this subject. I'm putting you on ignore. Feel special. You are the first person I've ever done that to.
I cannot answer to any of Dwight’s beliefs; but as far as the question of whether an atheist can be moral or not, I certainly believe that they can be as moral as any believer is. There are people who go to church on Sunday, and then live immoral lives , running businesses and cheating their customers. Look at the number of preachers and other church leaders who have been arrested for sex offenses with children, as well as televangelists who take money from poor little old ladies and drive new expensive vehicles and live in mansions, when they said the money was to help build churches in Africa. Some (and maybe a lot) of the people who are taught right from wrong as a child, and grow up with morals, learned it from parents or grandparents who read the Bible and tried to live Christian lives, and some of them become non-believers at some point in their life; but that does not make them suddenly immoral, too. My daughter was raised with Christian values, we went to church at every service, and enjoyed church and believing in God. As an adult, she has decided that because of some of the things she reads in the Bible that there is no God, and she is now an atheist. She is still the same honest and moral person that she was when she went to church. She doesn’t do it because she wants a reward, or because she is afraid of punishment, (As some Christians do) she does it because that is in her heart. God judges us by what is in our heart, not our church attendance, and I have every belief that if there is a heaven that Robin will be there, and God will explain all of her questions for her, just like he does for the rest of us.
I think you might step back a moment to think a bit rather than posting an obvious knee jerk reaction Dwight. Jus’ sayin’. There is a possibility that Sheldon did not read Hugh’s synopsis but only read yours which would indeed give one pause to wonder if you hold those beliefs. Be that as it may, there is no harm in asking a question and as a matter of fact, even if one thinks there is such a thing as a stupid question, it’s still a question nonetheless. Now, which one is better? Answer by simply writing that you were replying to another post or be offended? One way would give you a little room for thought and the other only causes a lot of anxiety and a visit to one’s local bar, psychiatrist or to the happy pills in the medicine cabinet.
I am special. I can understand you don't want to argue with people smarter than you. But that would include most people on this forum.
What you're saying has merit. One thing is; the older I get, the less patience I have with foolish people and the less I tolerate being treated unfairly. I recently told my urologist where he could shove it. I feel much less of a nice pesron than I used to.I'm trying to adopt the tactic of, instead of being confrontational, just avoiding the people and situations that bring out these conflicts. Thanks for you comments, Bobby..
At the very best, one’s faith and how one believes is difficult because there is absolutely no earthly way a person can accurately convey what they truly feel. There’s a lot of emotion involved and emotions cannot be transferred from one person to the next unless of course, one is fully empathic like the lady on Star Trek Next Generation. A couple of years ago we had a seemingly wonderful couple named “the Johnsons” come by the house and visit once a week. They are 7th Day Adventists and we are, for the most part Non-Denominational Christians. I had thought that we had a pretty good relationship with them because whilst we often had differing opinions based on our individual studies, there were never any harsh words or petty arguments until......... One day when I was working away from the house, they showed up and spoke to Yvonne. Mrs. Johnson told her that if she didn’t divorce me and start going to church on Saturday, she was going to hell. I guess they figured that since I wasn’t going to change my own beliefs and live by works as they do, I am doomed to go to hell and she would go with me to those fiery depths. They next time they came around, I was there and I had something to say to Mr. and Mrs. Johnson. I basically told them if Malaki 3:16 wasn’t a good enough reason to come together and study together, then they didn’t have to come around any longer. In short, they haven’t. To come to the point, they ‘felt” as though they were doing the right thing by threatening the fires of hell and I am equally sure that God is Just and knows my heart just as He knows theirs. I do not in any way believe that it is my job to threaten people nor judge them regarding their eternal destination even according to what I have studied. That’s God’s job and like I have said on many occasions, His job is very, very secure and any input I might have will most certainly be flawed because I cannot “feel” what is in another person’s heart.
Good post, Yvonne. My story is similar to your daughter's. I was raised by responsible parents with excellent values, humility, work ethic, kindness and morals. For many years as a young adult, I feared the consequences of expressing my doubts about religion... the old "damnation is forever" thing. Besides observing far too many professed Christians who certainly fail the sincerity test, I came to question my beliefs and am still actively questioning them. I feel as you do--that if there is a God then certainly he knows what is in my heart. I had a rather one-sided discussion with my sister last week. She is a devout Southern Baptist and despairs for my eternal soul. I actually considered telling her that I have "accepted Jesus" to simply get her to drop it, but I didn't. I just let her express her concerns for my afterlife since I realize that her beliefs are important to her. She is much more concerned about what will happen when I die than I have ever been.
I believe that we live in a created world, not one that just happened to happen erratically. What or who created it, is something that I do not know, but I believe that there is a creator. It does not matter to me if there is an afterlife (good or bad), or none at all. I strive to be the best person that i can , treat people as I would want to be treated, and I would do that even if I believed that God did not exist in any form. If we do have a heaven and can be with the people we have loved from our life, that is wonderful, but it is not my motivation in life. There are times in my life that I have no explanation for besides divine intervention, therefore I believe that God exists, and that he cares about me.
You guys make me feel like an intellectual and spiritual moron sometimes. Could you stop doing that, please?
Heck, I have a bunch of letters in back of my name and a few in front of my name all centered around theological studies and I stay off the entire board most of the time.
I'm not sure what's going on. I'm getting an opinion that I should avoid a subject if it makes me uncomfortable. I don't think that way, sorry. I go directly towards what makes me uncomfortable with the goal of having less fear. If that makes anyone.uncomfortable, then that's their problem. .
A lumberjack isn’t afraid of a tree no matter how big or tall it is but he still studies the tree before climbing it.