I could care less what people want to choose for their religion, I choose NONE finally at this point in my life and it comes out strongly I see. Just leave it out of our 21st Century government.
What bothers you about my comment? You know I'mkind of sick with the way I have to be politically correct in order to please other people. I posted a cartoon the other day where a father asks his sone how to get free stuff. and the answer is to "offend someone". In addition do you even know what your talking about when you talk about separation of church and state? It's about keeping the government out of the church not the other way around.
Why should church be in government. Govt in my life should have nothing to do with what I believe or what THEY believe about religion. Keeping my highways and other services going smoothly has nothing to do with religion as I see it. But then if I want to go to religion and Jesus in govt., I would say I understand that man Jesus helped everyone...No?
"One nation, under God." "In God We Trust." Whether you like it or not, religion has ALWAYS been a part of our government. The fact that you have freedom of religion, which includes NOT believing, is provided by the First Amendment to the Constitution. Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. And furthermore, regarding the separation of church and state... The phrase "wall of separation between the church and the state" was originally coined by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists on January 1, 1802. His purpose in this letter was to assuage the fears of the Danbury, Connecticut Baptists, and so he told them that this wall had been erected to protect them. The metaphor was used exclusively to keep the state out of the church's business, not to keep the church out of the state's business. LINK!
The funny thing is, every moral value that we hold sacred from committing murder to lying, stealing, adultery etc IS part of our government and always will be and it was first submitted by who? Moses. Ya just can’t get away from it. A person can be whatever they wish to be and believe what they wish to believe but I guarantee that no one is going to escape the fact that our government supports those 10 laws.
Al, Bobby, and Beth, thank you for understanding our country's Christian heritage better than most. I have enough books, articles, and videos in my own personal library to clearly prove to anyone seeking the truth that America's Founding Fathers established a Christian nation - with Christianity specifically ingrained in our laws, government, educational system, and public arena. This has been the case up until the 1960's - with no validity to the misused phrase of separation of church and state. Since then however, the country has seen a steady trend of secularization, with the ACLU, FFRF, and liberal federal judges successfully working towards a country with freedom from religion rather than freedom of religion. Our Founding Fathers deeply believed, and documented with proclamations, congressional notes, speeches, and various acts, that the security and prosperity our Republic was entirely dependent upon God. The extent that religion has prevailed throughout America's government and culture is undeniable to anyone who's studied the issue honestly. And to those of us able to recognize that it's our Founding Fathers' Christian beliefs and values that gave us this exceptional nation, we don't like the secular trend - which is one significant reason why many of us support Trump. Joy, as a conservative Christian, I don't expect our values to meet, but if you'll put aside some of your unwarranted antagonism towards religion, I'll answer your initial question concerning Trump's evangelical support, since no one else really has. Perhaps Trump does have an unbecoming arrogant attitute and says many unnecessary stupid or wrong things. I don't pretend to defend his disagreeable nature, though much of his political incorrectness and honesty about liberals and the media are appreciated by conservatives. No, let's look at what he openly stands for and what he's doing about religious issues. #1 is his position against abortion and his measures to date to curb Planned Parenthood's federal funding for abortions and their selling of body parts. While many people still don't appreciate the morality problem of killing unborn babies, most evangelical Christians do, recognizing this as the number one sin upon the country. #2 is his position on freedom of religion and his measures to date to appoint federal judges that'll actually uphold the constitution as it was written and intended. The government's attack on Christianity started in 1947 with a Supreme Court decision that ruled federal law superceded state law on religious matters - a direct conflict with the Founding Fathers' legal interpretive writings on the first amendment. In 1963, this ruling began the basis of a barage of laws that would slowly support the false idea of separation of church and state - essentially removing Christianity from the public arena entirely AND preventing many Christians from exercising their faith based values. This notion today is 180 degree turn from where we were for the first 300 years of this nation's original history, and one that disturbs Christians highly. Trump's selection of judges that will defend Christianity and it's values, including the hopeful reversal of Roe vs Wade, is a major reason for his support from evangelicals. Trump has signed proclamations for a number of lesser known pro-Christian issues, spoken out world-wide in defending freedom of religion, reinstated America's support for Israel (with an unprecedented move of their embassy), assisted in the release of imprisoned Christians overseas, criticized oppressive regimes that persecute Christians, countered some of the LGBTQ movement, and openly supported freedom and Christianity in his public speeches. In fact, I believe he's been the most God supporting president of my life time - certainly since Ronald Reagan. Now remember, that doesn't mean I like him as a person or that he's a good example of a Godly man. But, he supports Christians and Christian values - and to some of us, that's critically important. The fact that he's also 80% conservative with his beliefs makes him a viable leader despite his flaws - which are far fewer in number than the media portray. Joy, as a final word here to you, I won't ask you to suport a man who opposes your liberal values. You're consistent to oppose Trump and his conservative agenda. You're also free to oppose religion, detest Christians, and support the secularization trend of our country. But, what you may not understand is that it is the Christian values of America that has not only made it the most exceptional country in the worlds history, but it has also been the basis for our freedoms which I'm sure you enjoy as much as me. When you take Christianity out of America, we'll no longer have our essential foundation that our Founding Fathers deemed necessary for a Republic such as ours to survive.
Another first here for me: Disagreement in Multiple, a major imponderable. I respectfully disagree with Posts #4, 6, 7, 8. Maybe more, no time to read pp. 2 & 3 right now. If you disagree with my disagreements, please by all means tell me; otherwise I will be obliged to quit the thread! BTW, regarding Tammy Bakker's death: zillions of dead folks show up all the time on T-V. We cannot determine by reading the text here whether "live" screening was in place, or "re-run". Frank
Joseph Carl: I never used the words detest Christians and I can't help but wonder about the brain of DJ T...and I'm not alone, books are written on this topic. .thank you My mother was a christian and she was my first teacher in my life, I have fond memories of this woman but now find her beliefs are not mine, it took a lot of years. Her beliefs came from her parents from the "old country". Some tapes can never be erased. Thank you again.